I have very simple premises. Women are people. Men are people. Equality between men and women is a good thing. People, men and women, are agents. Agents make meaningful rational choices and are held accountable for their choices. I think that “equality for women” is a horrible idea. It leaves out a very important aspect of gender equality, MEN. Recently I’ve seen many post on how horrible it is to hold women accountable for their choices in clothing. I’ll address equality in that debate, well the absurd lack of equality.
This is a picture of Men’s business attire. Ranging from not so good, to really good. Lets see if we can’t make some rules for business attire. Let start with legs are fully covered. Arms are fully covered. Chest is fully covered. These are true even for the man’s apparel that is least recommended. Pants are Black/Navy or khaki. It is only pants. No one is wearing a skirt or a kilt or shorts or jeans. They are all wearing dress slacks. Now shirts. They are all wearing button down collard shirts. White is clearly the most recommended. Black is acceptable and blue is least recommended. The most recommenced are wearing ties, but hey you can choose whatever color tie you want.
So here are some more men in business attire. Legs covered, yep. Arms covered, yep. Chest covered yep. White shirts, yep. Well one is wearing a blue shirt, that is acceptable but not as professional. These men have color choices that are slightly more diverse. There is grey and brown. So lets make that rule “Earth Tones” for color choices. Finally the ties, these men are wearing patterned ties, so cheers for diversity in choice!!! When it comes to clothing choices, men really have a choice in what tie to wear.
One more example for the professional dress for men. Lets run down our list of rules to see if they are appropriately dressed. Legs are covered, yes. Arms are covered, yes. Chest is covered, yes. Clothing is Earth tones, yes. Wearing ties, yes again. But hey look there are 4 different colors with 4 different patterns of ties. What diversity in choice.
Since the goal is equality between men and women, and we have by general conciseness agreed men are the default. Lets look at the rules for business attire, not men’s attire or women’s attire, business attire. One set of rules for both men and women. These rules are rather few and simple. Dress slacks that fully cover the legs. Arms are fully covered to the wrists. Chest is fully covered. The choice of colors are the earth tones, with Black/navy being strongly recommended. Finally we have ties. Wearing a tie isn’t really optional, the 3/14 men not wearing ties where in the not recommended range. Hey, men do have their choice of color and pattern for the ties. Now lets look at how well women follow these rules.
In truth I had some difficulty selecting these pictures. I truly wanted pictures of actual professionals that are women, not models sexing it up to sell the product. This means that I’ve selected images from stuff like the small business administration, not catalogs. This also means that the images of men are male models, and much more attractive than the women that are real professionals. I’m looking at clothes, so pretty faces are not important.
So he we have a picture of women that are real professionals. Lets see how well they follow the rules for business attire. Legs are covered. Well 10/12 are following this rule. Arms are covered. 10/12 are following this rule. Chest is fully covered. Looks like 8/12 are following this rule. Color choice of earth tones. 10/12 are following this rule, but only 3 are wearing the preferred Black/Navy. Expecting women to be wearing ties isn’t reasonable. It falls outside of social norms. So what would be a good comparison to men’s ties? Of the 12 women in this picture I only see 4 that are actually following all of the rules for business attire.
Here is our 2nd picture of professional women. So how well are they doing at dressing professionally. Legs are covered. 6/8 have their legs covered. Arms are covered. 7/8 have their arms covered. Chest fully covered. 7/8 have their chests fully covered. Earth tones for color. Yes, and 6/8 are even in the preferred Black/navy. So these women are doing a much better job of dressing professionally than the ones in the first photo.
So last photo of professional attire for women. Legs are covered. 3/5. Arms are covered 4/5. Chest fully covered, Yep. Earth tones, check. 3/5 are in the preferred Black/navy. In this photo 3/5 people are properly dressed in business attire.
I think it’s clear, women are not dressing as professionally as men. When people complain about how unfair and unreasonable it is to judge a woman based on her clothing, this is what I think of. These women are clearly already being judged less harshly than the men for their choices in clothing. To say that women should be judged even less harshly than they are now isn’t arguing for equality. It is arguing for privilege.
When I hear women complaining about how harshly the are judged for their choices in clothing, I’m not sure what they are complaining about. Women are already judged much less harshly than men for clothing choices. Women already have much more flexibility and personal discretion in clothing choices. Women are already privileged when it comes to clothing choices. To what extent does this privilege need to be extended to make feminist happy? If feminists wanted equality between men and women, they would be outraged over how lax the judgements of women are. If feminists wanted equality they would be fighting to make the male dress code less strict.
Do women really want this to be considered conservative formal business attire?
The Poisoned Well 
Too true. Women already have the option of wearing a dress, slacks OR a skirt and still having it be called “professional” by most people. Not so for men, which imo is unfair for male professionals on hot days. What choice does he have but to wear pants?
Maybe for women, shoes can = ties? Or hairstyle choices? Still unsure about this one…
Lastly, an odd tidbit from my college days: I had to take a Management & Presentation class for my Business degree, and our final project was to do a standing PowerPoint in front of everyone, while wearing appropriate attire. Two other women and myself got 5 points taken off our project grade because we wore black slacks instead of skirts/dresses.
We were not told ahead of time that the females of the class couldn’t wear dress pants, but were informed by our (male) professor afterwards that “real” businesswomen are never seen in them. News to us!
I was thinking shoes to, but almost everyone always wears shoes. Possibly if the restriction was high heels, not just any shoes. I’m tentative about saying that because high heels are much more restrictive to mobility and are associated with foot problems and are specifically designed to make a woman’s ass stand out. I really don’t think shoes are a good comparison. Hair would be. Women do have much more freedom of hair styles, but not unlimited. But then hair style isn’t really a clothing option. Possibly ear rings. They are an expectation of business women, and there are lots of options.
I think that professor was in the wrong (unless you where finished school in like 1973 or something). Business professionals wear pants, men and women. Women have the additional option of wearing skirts or dresses, but they haven’t been the only option for a long time.
Ugh, I would go with hairstyle too then…high heels are the spawn of the devil. I refuse to own them. Then again, I also refuse to get piercings of any kind, so earrings wouldn’t work for me unless we counted clip-ons. I wish ties were acceptable attire for both sexes…I know how to wear one, and some are really awesome looking.
And no, I’m only 29 years old. I got my Bachelor’s when I was 22…I think he was just really old-fashioned.
Seriously, if she wants to wear a bikini she should, but a man should also have that same choice. The real problem is liberating oneself from being wage-slaves, then we can all wear whatever we want to work.
Well ya, if she wants to wear a bikini she can. She will also get laughed out of the building, and she should. The choices in clothing that you make are how you choose to present yourself to the world. They are a reflection of what you think of yourself. If you are choosing to look sexy, then you value your sexuality is the message you are sending. If you choose to look professional, then you value professionalism is the message you are sending. If you choose to look ragged, then you don’t value yourself is the message you are sending. How you choose to present yourself is a very important message to everyone you meet. I will NEVER hire a layer wearing swimwear to the office, man or woman. If that individual is not capable of separating business and pleasure I doubt they can do a good job. Do you really want to want a doctor cutting you open if they believe their sexuality is their best attribute? Do you really want a CPA that thinks having fun is more important than doing work? Do you want a lawyer that doesn’t think they are worthy of clean clothes? Your choice in clothing is an important choice and should be an important choice.
Very interesting article. So in general women show more of their skin than men. If anyone comment that they should limit their exposure in dangerous places, they will complain that men are punishing them by preventing them from exercising their rights.
I said nothing about “Dangerous Places”. I talked about professionals dressing professionally in professional environments. So I’m not sure what your talking about with “men are punishing them” and exercising rights.
Yes, I know. Women sometimes complain about sexual harassment at workplace, probably resulting from more revealing dresses. In the U.S., South America and some parts of Europe, sometimes women’s swimming suites are considerably skimpier than men. Women also say that they want to go anywhere, anytime and wear anything they want to wear, and preventing that (saying that it would be dangerous because it might invite attackers) will be tantamount to punishing them. When I read your comparison on a professional setting, I also noticed that generally (even outside professional setting) women wear less cloths, and one of their demands is that they should be able to go anywhere (even places that are known to be dangerous) with those cloths.
I agree, but that is why I was very specific in the post about professionals dressing professionally in a professional environment, so that I could side step the “punishing women” arguments.
Interesting post! I think your premise is a little off though. I mean women complaining about office attire don’t have a case, as you pointed out here. But I think people who complain about women’s clothes and being held accountable, are probably the ones who say, just because she wears shorts on a hot day doesn’t mean she can be ogled at (quick glance is different.)
I wish men’s fashion was as varied as women’s. I think it comes from women putting more value in their appearance. But in this day and age it’s really not fair that men get so few options.
I think you missed the premise. The premise was there is a massive sexist double standard that should be fixed. I even agree with you that this should be fixed with men’s rights not feminimism, giving more options to men not restricting women’s choices.
If you want to use men’s rights to give more options for men’s wardrobe choices, then do as feminists and just regular women have done and wear what you wish to wear. Fight for it like women have done. Stop bowing to peer pressure and wear what you want.
Truthfully, the issue around women’s apparel has more to do with how women are often assessed first on their looks, including what they wear, whereas men are often assessed first for their achievements or position.
If you men wish to be treated as equals, then you need to become equal.
According to Webster’s Feminism is the advocacy for women’s rights on the basis of social enconomic and political equality to men.
So, how will advocating for women’s rights change the male dress code? Advocating for women to be allowed to wear ties won’t make it acceptable for men to wear dresses. Advocating for women to be allowed to wear loafers won’t make it acceptable for men to wear ear rings. Feminism is not the solution.
Women are judged on their clothing. This is because women HAVE CHOICE when it comes to clothing, men DO NOT. If you are actually interested in gender equality then Advocate against feminism and say women should have LESS choice. Or don’t be feminist, don’t make this about women and advocate for Men’s Rights.
Men have choice on what to wear. They are just too cajoled by peer pressure to exercise it. You have this blog because you figure this is how to get women into conversation.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/warren-evans-skirt-suspension_n_1528593.html
Yes, because being suspended from school is just being cajoled by peer pressure not institutional enforcement of gender norms.
You are not the first person to be exiled for nonconformity. The trick is learning the difference between exile and freedom. That is the path we are all on, learning that difference.
So I should find and link stories where males are assaulted? Murdered? Raped? what level of crimes against males because they wore a dress will make this a “Men’s Rights Issue” and not the fault of the person being harassed, assaulted, expelled?
1) Why have you chosen men’s business attire as the basis of “good” business attire? Haven’t you introduced a bias from the get-go?
2) Why don’t men wear colourful or patterned suits?
3) Why don’t men wear skirts or dresses?
4) Do you know what happens to women when they dress “like men”?
5) Why do you think women wear skirts, dresses, show cleavage, their legs, wear make-up, shave, pluck and wax natural facial and body hair?
6) Do you know what happens to women who don’t?
7) “I think it’s clear, women are not dressing as professionally as men.” Do you know why?
8) “These women are clearly already being judged less harshly than the men for their choices in clothing.” Do you know why?
This statement is false: “Women are already judged much less harshly than men for clothing choices.” Men and women are judged equally harshly, but for different reasons.
This would be a good example of where the peer review would help. It is written from a male MRA perspective.
1)The intent was to introduce bias, create a baseline for comparison. Change the discussion from “Women are sexualized” to an actual comparison between men and women.
2)Very few patterns are “Professional” and very few men wear patterns. There is nothing wrong with a pinstripe suit, I just didn’t include any.
3)Men don’t wear skirts and dresses because of the same outdated dogmatic regressive gender roles that said women shouldn’t wear pants in the 50’s
4)Women that dress like men are called names like “dyke” Note that this is why I counted full length dresses as “legs fully covered” when considering the women’s clothing. You can dress like a woman without showing off your legs.
5)Women dress the way they do to advertize sex.
6)Women that don’t advertize sex don’t get the advantages of men being extra nice to them trying to get into their pants.
7)Same as #6
8)Women are judged less harshly for their clothing because there is an accountability gap. This accountability gap opens up a lot of space for women to express their sexuality in workplaces because their actions are seen as having less of an impact. This same accountability gap limits the extent that women are seen as strong and capable, slowing down the climb up the corporate ladder.
In general men and women are judged equally harshly, but judged in different ways for different reasons. When looking at clothing and only clothing men are judged more harshly. If you note I have already argued that women are judged more harshly than men for workplace performance.
Lastly. The intent was to point out that women are people. Women are making choices. These choices have meaning and affect. While these choices that women make are not the one and only factor in the work place, they are a factor. If we are to have a conversation about gender equality a good portion of that conversation is going to be about the bad choices women make and the ways to go about changing women’s behaviors.
I found this article a really handy simplified guide to what is “professional wear” – thanks.
I think you make good points about the difference in the range of choices that are available to men and women.
But I think you may have confused the argument. The problem for many women is not that they don’t have enough options, it’s that each choice is somehow marked.
A man can put on a suit and have the privilege of being unmarked – simply a professional individual.
For women, this is arguably not possible.
If she dresses too much like her male peers, she may be seen as “cold, unfeminine, threatening”.
If she dresses with more femininity, she may be accused of inviting sexual attention or not projecting a powerful enough image.
The point is that women’s clothing choices carry more baggage that they didn’t ask for. There is no “neutral” readily available.
You can rephrase my argument, but that’s all you did. Yes, women’s choices are “marked”. Men have NO CHOICE, no option to be “marked”.
The issue of clothing choice and objectification is every bit as much about men’s lack of choice as women’s choices. If men had the same volume of options that women did, they would all be “marked” options. If women had the same lack of choice men have, there would be nothing to “mark”.
Looking at this from a Marked vs unmarked perspective the solution is LESS options for women or MORE options for men. Making women’s plethora of choices all unmarked is not a viable option.